The reason I chose the name Radioactive Liberty is because of that visceral, raw, emotional response that we all have, “Screw it! Nuke ‘em all!” This raw emotion is not just limited to the Middle East. I sometimes feel that way about the UN or the pointed headed goons in DC that purportedly represent us.
It also alludes to the fact that, as horrific as Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, unleashing the bomb may well have been less of a horror than if we had not done so. Add to that the fact that the Nazis were actively pursuing the atom bomb. We really were in a race to see who could use it first. Imagine if the Nazis had won that race. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that they would not have used it had they been ready to before we used it.
That’s an awkward way of getting around to saying, it really disturbs me when I see comments that say “Kill all Muslims. ALL of them.” I do allow for a bit of leeway that it may just be that visceral, raw emotion at play, but when I see it from the same person repeatedly, and backed up with additional anti-Islam-as-a-whole, “there is no such thing as a peaceful Muslim anywhere in the world at all, nor can there be nor will there ever be. Period” type rhetoric, I start to get angry.
These are the same people that ask, “Where’s the Muslim that doesn’t want to kill the infidel? Where’s the Muslim that denounces terrorism?” And when they do happen to come across one that meets that very description, they go to his blog and leave comments saying, “Death to Islam. Kill all Muslims. ALL of them.” Then proceed to ask yet again, “Where is the Muslim that denounces terrorism? There are none. They do not, and can not exist. Nor will they ever exist. Ever.” Turning a blind eye to each and every one that does.
These people are cowardly, worthless, hateful bigots. Get off my team. I don’t need you.There are others that are merely misinformed, or uninformed, but don’t carry the blind bigoted hatred in their hearts. While they may regurgitate the favorite talking points of the bigots, they will acknowledge the Muslim that denounces terrorism, and say, “We need more voices like yours.”
Now, I’ve made my share of “Goats gone wild” jokes, and the like. That’s mostly because it is the terrorists I wish to offend, combined with the fact that I make fun of everything. Nothing is sacred to me. Nothing. My goal is to ridicule everything, including myself. Don’t like it, there’s an “X” in the upper right corner. Click it. Buh bye.
In no way do I deny that the enemy we face adheres to a violent, destructive, death-cult of Islam. They do. I also wouldn’t say that they are not “real Muslims.” They are. I don’t care what percentage adheres to this fanatical sect either. Whether they are a minority or the majority is irrelevant. There can be no doubt that it is the dominant sect in the regions that foment terrorism: Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc.
It dominates because the thugs in power are promoting it and preaching and teaching it from birth, and there is no freedom to think otherwise, and no free exchange of ideas. Would it be dominant if those in power were not thugs? Would it be dominant if those in power did not promote it, but instead promoted an actual peaceful, tolerant sect of Islam? Would it be dominant if there was a free exchange of ideas, social mobility, and democratic elections. No. It would not.
I don’t see the purpose or usefulness in alienating our single greatest asset in the War on Terror: Intelligent, persuasive, tolerant, anti-terrorist Muslims. That’s what you do when you fail to distinguish between the death-cult Muslims and the ones on our side. Even if their voice is not loud, why would we throw them in the same room as our enemies and demand that they be destroyed as well? We should hold these allies in the War on Terror up, and amplify their voices until they become a deafening roar on their own.
And when they get told by the death-cultists that they are not “Muslim enough,” we should be there to stand by with them and say to the fanatic, “We are brothers in fighting against your death cult. Bring it!”
I’ve outlined some of the reasons why we don’t hear many Muslim voices on opposition to terrorism, and and why buying into their fanatical way of life is appealing. Consider this as well; the MSM is blatantly pro-terrorist, anti-American, anti-war, and anti-Bush. They do not wish to seek out those who would oppose terrorism. Instead they look to CAIR and other pro-terrorist, anti-American, anti-war, and anti-Bush Muslim groups, because it fits in with their objectives.
Then on the Right, we have those that merely disregard Muslim voices because they are Muslim. No, it’s not going to be easy to find. Let me ask you, do you hear a lot of good news from Iraq in the MSM? Does this mean there is no good news, at all, ever? Of course not. They just omit it because it doesn’t sell their agenda. They refuse to give coverage to that which opposes their world view.
It’s not about how many or what percentage of Muslims support or sympathize with the terrorists. It’s about helping those that don’t to become powerful. They are the greatest asset we have.
To me that’s precisely the strategy we need to follow: Topple the thugs, institute democracy and capitalism, and get the liberal Muslims in positions of power. That’s how we will win. Finding liberal Muslims and then denying their existence and proclaiming “Death to ALL Muslims.” is counter-productive.
“Death to Islamonazis. Death to Islamic fascists. Death to violent Islamic extremists.” That I can drink to. That draws a distinction, and the distinction is important.
You may now attempt to persuade me that I’m not always right.
**
Trackbacked on Mudville Gazette
2004–2008
24 responses so far ↓
1
STP
// Aug 15, 2006 at 6:25 am
Muslims are like Christians in the sense that one sect becomes representative of the whole group.
2
FIAR
// Aug 15, 2006 at 6:49 am
Indded, but when you actually find someone not representative of the dominant death cult, and tell that individual that you’d like them dead, that goes too far.
Kind of like “I hate people, but I like individuals.”
3
jt
// Aug 15, 2006 at 6:49 am
Damnit Fitch. Every time you say “You may now attempt to persuade me that I’m not always right.”, I go back and re-read the piece looking for points to argue only to find out that, indeed, you are always right.
You bastard.
Monger…
4
FIAR
// Aug 15, 2006 at 6:50 am
JT, you can still attempt to persuade me though.
5
a4g
// Aug 15, 2006 at 9:49 am
I suspect many people have spent the years since 9/11 in the same quandry I have: what is the true nature of Islam?
Is it a hijacked faith, or a death cult incompatible with human dignity?
I think the answer is, that it doesn’t much matter.
In war, your enemy’s motivation is entirely beside the point, in the same way that civilian casualties are beside the point. There are only the goals of the conflict, and the steps you must take to reach those goals. Whether the ‘moderate Muslim’ is the deathcult radical’s asset through active assistance or mere passive docility, does not alter the ultimate conditions on the ground. The strengths of your enemy must be aggressively degraded, or you must resign yourself to eventually be overcome.
The black wisdom of Dresden.
While I’m not in the Kill All Muslims camp, I suspect that the answer may be, that given the virulence of fundamentalist jihadis, we are going to have to kill a lot more Muslims than we would like.
America will not survive forever. Like all great cultures, it will be swallowed up by the great reaver time.
It is the cold brutality of our decisions today that will decide whether we have already seen our greatest days, or have not yet even imagined our future glory.
And yes, that glory will have to be bought with much suffering.
6 Aggressive Tendencies :: Finding Their Voice :: August :: 2006 // Aug 15, 2006 at 10:36 am
[...] FIAR reminds us that sometimes we need to take a deep breath, and remember who are enemies are and who they are not. It is part of human nature to condemn the many for the actions of the few. I’ve done it myself on occasion out of frustration. [...]
7
jt
// Aug 15, 2006 at 12:09 pm
But if I already agree with you, wouldn’t that just be me trying to persuade you to agree with yourself?
I think that’s illegal in 4 northern states…
8
fmragtops
// Aug 15, 2006 at 2:59 pm
Ummm, what a4g said. Except that I think at some point the true nature of Islam will matter because if this is not a hijacked religion and is truly a death cult incompatable with human dignity, we will have to decide whether it is then time to kill all the muslims.
9
fmragtops
// Aug 15, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Oh! And what’s wrong with hating people and liking individuals? I get busy at work, and can’t come around as much, so everybody turns on me? Sheesh! Buncha mongerists.
10
FIAR
// Aug 15, 2006 at 4:37 pm
A few points. I was trying to be specific about something, but then expand it some. I probably failed to clarify some things.
Specifically, I was responding to how I see Muslim bloggers that advocate our anti-terrorist positions get hateful comments. a4g, FM, if you were on a blog where a muslim blogger wrote a post supporting our side, would you leave a comment saying, “Hope you die soon, muzzy!”
That’s what I was trying to say about hating people but liking individuals. In that respect, we’ve gotten down to the individual level.
I was also trying to deal with the anti-terrorist, pro-tolerance Muslims, not the silent ones, and definitely not the “Kill the infidel” ones. The ones actively on our side. I tried to point out that the pro-terrorist MSM is NOT going to give these people a voice, ever, but we should, and we definitely should not be treating them as if they are the enemy as well. It doesn’t take long of trying to support one side, and being told to go to hell before an individual decides it’s pointless. “Screw you guys. I’m going home.” Is that what we want to do to our freinds?
In terms of battlefield tactics, the closest I came to that was implicit. I recognized the the horror of the bomb outweighed the horror of not using it. In that respect, fight mercilessly, fight with “disproportionate force,” and win rapidly and decisively. We’re all on the same page there.
I also never threw the “Hijacked religion” card. What I meant is that when the fighting is over, and we have won on the battlefield, we need reformist Muslims in power. We’re NOT going to have Christians, or athiests running these countries. They will be Muslims, but they need to be tolerant freindly Muslims. They need to be the reformists. Otherwise the only option truly is Convert, Kill, or enslave. That credo sounds eerily like the one the enemy holds.
I’m out of time for now, but keep the conversation going.
11
von
// Aug 15, 2006 at 9:12 pm
Ok, I’ll bite. What if 30 suitcase nukes were sucessfully set off in 30 different major cities in the United States causing massive death and disaster? Of course, all of the people setting them off were MUSLIM terrorists. How would this effect your position, if at all?
How bad of a disaster would it have to be for you to change your attitude, and decide that all muslims had to die?
12
FIAR
// Aug 15, 2006 at 9:33 pm
I can only tell you that at that moment it would be a good thing I don’t have access to the silos, Von. But you hypothetical has absolutely zero with the issue I’m addressing here. Why don’t you answer the question I asked a4g and FM. If you were on a blog where a muslim blogger wrote a post supporting our side, would you leave a comment saying, “Hope you die soon, muzzy!” Would you do that? I mean now. Would you?
13
von
// Aug 15, 2006 at 9:43 pm
It is you that are missing the point. Just because another person has already come to terms with the fact that at some point we are going to have to kill all the muslims doesn’t mean that you should say that they are bad. Because one day, you too may be swayed to hold that same opinion.
One person may be smart enough to see that it would be smarter now to eliminate all of the Muslims before they have the chance to cause mass destruction to our society and country. Just because it would take a very dramatic disaster for you to come to the same conclusion that someone more insightful than you has already come to doesn’t mean that they are bad, it just means that they are smarter than you.
One day soon, you and your online muslim friends will have to choose sides. Who’s side will you be on? Who’s side do you think your muslim boyfriend will be on?
14
FIAR
// Aug 15, 2006 at 10:00 pm
I haven’t picked a side? Who knew?
15
von
// Aug 15, 2006 at 10:13 pm
You’re no fun, commentmonger!
16
FIAR
// Aug 15, 2006 at 10:43 pm
Funmonger
17
von
// Aug 15, 2006 at 11:06 pm
Funmonger, eh? At least I’m not the one in denial about all muslims wanting to kill me.
18
FIAR
// Aug 15, 2006 at 11:17 pm
I’m not in denial. I believe I was the one that said
Perhaps you use a different dictionary than I do where “Mercilessly” means appeasement, but in my dictionary it doesn’t. Maybe in Missisipian “win rapidly and decisively” means something else too.
I dunno. I’m just a dumb Yankee.
19
von
// Aug 16, 2006 at 6:16 am
get the…Muslims in positions of power…
I see what you are trying to hide here! You are trying to make it look like because I’m from Mississippi that I must be stupid, and won’t see through your facade! Well, not today, Mr! I know how to use Dictionary.com!
20
a4g
// Aug 16, 2006 at 8:59 am
I intentionally came at your original point at a 90 degree angle, FIAR, because, as jt noted above, you had done a pretty thorough job.
I think we can agree that wishing death via the internet is probably not terribly constructive or effective, even for those holding to the “glass parking lot” theory of warfare.
But it occurred to me that we might be engaging in a bit of soft bigotry. Isn’t the subtext of this entire discussion that we need to use extra care with moderate Muslims, because if we don’t, we think there’s a damn good chance they’ll radicalise, and blow themselves up?
I’ll have to double check my history books, but it seems to me that a foundational element of Western thought is that when put to the lash, you cleave more closely to the Lord.
Our side has martyrs, too. And when ridiculed and spit upon and burned and torn apart, they opened more fully to love. I don’t recall any St. Bartholomew of the Suicide Belt.
In fact, I don’t recall any bile- spewing troll that made me do anything but laugh, or perhaps lose interest. I’ve never had that compulsion to wish death on every last Muslim because somebody without a Shift key and the inability to spell ‘you’ pushed Submit on the comments button.
But heaven knows we have to be careful with Muslims! Because one wrong ‘Die Muzzies!’ and Ahmed– devout, peace- loving Ahmed, who knows jihad is an inner struggle– might just dust off the detonator and push the red button.
If Hitler had put a unitary NaziGod at the head of his political movement, would we be trying to intellectually separate the peace- loving religion of the Wehrmacht from its more psychotic adherents?
It is our own intimate association with a truly great religion that give us a soft spot for this desert plague which has shown itself consistantly throughout history to be a destructive, evil blight upon the world.
I find it hard to write this, because I do not want to believe it, but it is hard to deny when the evidence keeps slugging me in the face.
Just as surely as they hijacked the tools created by the infrastructure of our own great society to attack us on 9/11, so they use found objects in our intellectual infrastructure– our faith in the ultimately positive nature of religion– to use against us and weaken our effectiveness.
Their “religion of peace” mantra is a crude boxcutter brought into the belly of the magnificent, delicate craft of Western thought.
Perhaps the problem we don’t wish to face, is that like us, when faced with adversity and torment, they too will cleave more closely to the Lord.
Only theirs is curiously surrounded by a swarm of flies.
21
fmragtops
// Aug 17, 2006 at 9:06 pm
Wow. Just. Wow.
Umm, I think you took my comments more seriously than I intended them FIAR. Since you’ve asked the question, I answer with my stock answer: “What a4g said.”
Seriously though, I do have a few Muslim friends, and I don’t think they want to blow themselves up. They are really good guys, and I sincerely hope that no harm will ever come to them. Furthermore, if a Muslim came to my site and left a comment I agreed with, I would not wish death upon him. Similarly, if a Muslim came to my site and left a comment I disagreed with, short of overtly supporting terrorism, or being particularly trollesque, I wouldn’t wish death on him either.
On the other hand, I do believe Islam is a religion founded on violence, death, and conquest and is part of the problem. C’mon, the Prophet (piss be upon him) was a warlord. Well, I guess that’s not really a strong argument coming from a warmonger, but you get my point.
22
FIAR
// Aug 18, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Nope. Not at all. It’s to use them. I never made any claim of radicalizing them, just causing them to go home, be quiet and stop trying. They will just give up, and even if they don’t we will thoroughly discredit them ourselves. Our own determined effort to advance the fundamentalist view of Islam will brand the reformers as heretics, and not “real Muslims” by using the bin Laden Islamic view to deconstruct them.
The ultimate result will be to negate, on our own, a potentially powerful “enemy within.” Big bonus points for the terrorists, they don’t have to worry about the threat of apostasy because we’ll relegate the reformers to insignificant status for them. Never mind the squandered opportunity to cause fundamentalist Islam to crumble from within.
Hahaha! Me, of all people, worrying about offending people? You have read my blog before, right? See also the above response. Jihad is an “inner struggle?” Not hardly. It means “kill the infidel.”
Buzz! Wrong answer. Got a bridge to sell me? Maybe some prime farmland on the Gaza Strip?
More like religion of hijacking. We do have the opportunity to hijack the religion ourselves though. Think of what the media does when it wants to present a minority voice as one that is overwhelmingly popular in order to sway public opinion. They selectively cherry-pick who to talk to, and how they present it to create the illusion tat it’s the overwhelming majority view.
There are some areas in life where perception really is reality. That is, if people are convinced that it is so, they will respond based on that belief. Take the Tet Offensive, for instance. It was portrayed as an abysmal failure, even though it wasn’t. Enough people believed that it was though, and it became a turning point in the Vietnam War. They’re trying to do the same thing with Iraq too.
All through time, information war, propaganda, psy-ops, whatever you wish to call it has played an important role in achieving victory. The information war is important, yet we so stubbornly refuse to engage in it. Why are we so adamantly opposed to engaging in subterfuge?
If Fundamental Islam is the problem, I see there being two ways to solve the problem. One is kill the people practicing it, and the other is to end the practice of it. I think it’s easier to undermine and reform it than to say, “sorry Abu. You convert to another religion, or I’ll have to kill you.” If we rule out reform, then there’s no third option of saying, “Or you could just practice your religion peacefully.” How could they, we ourselves made such a concerted effort to inform the world that would be apostasy. (or we will if we stay on the same path)
The plus side is that “Kill the people practicing it” and “end the practice of it” are not mutually exclusive. They can work in concert with each other. Maybe some of you Christians think that “end the practice of it” has to mean convert to Christianity, but as an atheist, I don’t see that as reasonable.
I’m not suggesting that we be naive as to the nature of the threat. I’m suggesting an internal threat to their way of life. We can thrust enlightenment and reform upon them with the pen, rather than thrust death upon them with the sword.
23
a4g
// Aug 18, 2006 at 6:22 pm
FIAR,
I think we’re closer to agreeing than not. I’ve favored the Iraq strategy for the very reason that it attempts to introduce a viral meme into Islam that has at least some chance of destroying the radical impulses of the religion.
Frankly, I don’t see any other way to combat radicalism at this point, as I don’t think that Americans believe that radical Islam is an existential threat to the U.S. That belief would be necessary to enact the fever dreams of the “kill all Muslims” crowd.
Myself, I do think radical Islam could be an existential threat– not this year or next or even in 10 years, but I worry about what can change in the span of two generations. It’s why I support fully your “not mutually exclusive” option of killing those “what need to be killed,” and applying the “nuance” that we conservatives supposedly don’t have to the others, through democratization and the introduction of Liberty.
But since we’re idly speculating here, what still worries me is the possibility that an idea can be in and of itself objectively dangerous, incapable of reform. As in my previous example– what is the “moderate Nazi”? The “moderate Stalinist”? We don’t even bother trying to concieve of these things– we merely wish to destroy the ideology.
I think if anything can qualify as having a history of virulence, it’s Islam. While I do wish to see it transform, and I want to believe it is possible, I still worry that it might be a fool’s errand.
Unfortunately, it’s a question largely unanswerable in the here and now, where we so desperately need that answer. So I’ll hold my breath and dive headfirst into reform, hoping that there’s no sandbar hidden in the murky green water.
24
Jimmy
// Sep 3, 2006 at 5:27 pm
I’m glad i don’t live in planet Fitch…I suppose I’ve not done enough legal, or otherwise, substances, to have made it to that level yet…in time…They set a prison with walls you can’t even perceive…you buy their lies….and walk…zombie like…to their arguments…I wish I was a revolutionary…with power in the air…standing shoulder to shoulder…human beings everywhere….take the march into their face…take it to the square…let them know we’re revolutionary…let them know where there…
Stop these petty arguments children…there’s a war being waged on your brain…
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